Housed: The Shared Living Podcast
Sarah Canning and Deenie Lee of The Property Marketing Strategists have teamed up with Daniel Smith of Student Housing Consultancy to discuss the latest news, views and insights in the shared living sector.
Each episode they will be delving into a wide variety of subjects and asking the questions which aren't often asked.
This podcast is a must for anyone working in Student Accommodation, BTR, Co-Living, Operational Real Estate or Shared Living.
Housed: The Shared Living Podcast
Rental Illiteracy: How can we navigate the knowledge gap? Changing management companies, Using AI, PBSA stock in Glasgow
This week Deenie, sarah & Dan are discussing:
- Changing management companies
- The Housing Hand report Understanding Renters in 2025
- Why we need to be educating renters
- The Renters Rights’ Bill
- Using AI for researching how to rent
- Addressing affordability
- Student Crowd data on PBSA stock in Glasgow.
Thank you to our season four sponsors:
MyStudentHalls - Find your ideal student accommodation across the UK.
Utopi - The smart building platform helping real estate owners protect the value of their assets.
Washstation - Leading provider of laundry solutions for Communal and Campus living throughout the UK and Ireland.
Each week, Sarah Canning, Deenie Lee of The Property Marketing Strategists and Daniel Smith of RESI Consultancy will be delving into a wide variety of subjects and asking the questions that aren't often asked. This podcast is for anyone who works in Student Accommodation, BTR, Co-living, Later Living, university accommodation, Operational Real Estate or Shared Living.
Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are the personal views of the individual hosts and guests.
Hello everyone and welcome back to How's the shared living podcast. This is the third episode in season four and we're so grateful you've been listening to us chat all things shared living in this brand new season. I'm Deanie Lee from the Property Marketing Strategists, Dan.
Speaker 2:Smith from Resi Consultancy.
Speaker 1:And I'm Sarah Canning from the Property Marketing Strategists. And first just a quick word from our headline sponsor. Season four of How's is sponsored by mystudenthallscom. List your properties, commission free, and reach thousands of students searching for their university home. Dan and the team from my Student Halls have been supporters of Housed since the very beginning and we are really, really grateful that they're here once again as headline sponsors of Season 4. Their student accommodation listing site is easy for students to search and easy for operators to list. So if you haven't already, make sure you're listed. Also, a huge thank you to our brand new sponsors, watchitation and Utopia, and we will be hearing more from them later Due to popular demand. We'll also be hearing more from Holly from Howard Kennedy about the renter's rights bill after the committee stage has been finalised. So please do send us any questions you'd like us to cover with Holly.
Speaker 1:So it's been a long weekend. What have you been all up to? Deena and I? We have been completing a tour, haven't we, for a PBSA operator doing their sales training all around the country, so we were busy with that during April. We did four sessions, really, really big groups, so I think we managed to get all of their kind of front of house operations teams trained in sales and marketing, and it's just always.
Speaker 1:It's just such a great thing to actually spend time with the operators in the sector, I think, and our sales training is really interactive and we demand engagement. It's not just us standing there with PowerPoints telling them what to do do, so it gives a real opportunity to kind of connect and see, hear and listen to what's going on in the sector and you know we really tailor the sales training to the, the operator, and to the properties, to the teams. So, yeah, every session was completely different. So I thoroughly enjoyed that and getting around and seeing their properties and meeting their teams. And I think what was really nice is that it gave an opportunity also for teams from different sites to get together and share best practice, which I think is always really nice to see and really important, because sometimes you can feel a bit isolated when you've got your own little satellite site. So it's a great opportunity for them to get together and network too. Dan, what have you been up to?
Speaker 2:Tender processes. To be honest with you, it's a really interesting time of year where I think that I'm seeing more investors not necessarily developers with new sites, but I'm seeing more investors with existing sites just speculatively put in a request for a potential change of management, and I find that really interesting, given the time of year it seems to have been. It's a consequence of some of these operators becoming particularly large, some of them obviously having new systems as well, and it feels like there are a few smaller investors in particular that just feel like they've fallen through the cracks. Now, that's not necessarily true.
Speaker 2:I'll just put it out there now. I don't think there's any gross mismanagement from any third party operators here. Far from it. I think there's some very good third party operators out there. There are some market conditions that aren't particularly favourable in certain cities, and some investors are using that as an opportunity to have a bit of a look around.
Speaker 2:Now, not all operators are made equal, and that means that there are some that would be stronger in a certain location compared to others, or you know, with a certain type of investor or property or whatever it might be, and so we are being drafted in at resi consultancy to oversee some of these tender processes in various different forms, from preston to birmingham, to sheffield, to paris to barcelona.
Speaker 2:We've got quite a few on the go at the moment, which is which is really good fun. So it gives us a good insight into what's happening in the market, who is performing strongest in certain locations and what the differences are between them, because they are all different and there's no one operator that you know is a shoo-in in certain locations or just because they've got the best system or the best people, or whatever it might be. They're all very different and have different strengths and weaknesses, and that's why the tender processes that we're doing are particularly important. So yeah, good, good fun, really enjoy doing those and closing out a few other projects needs analysis for a London borough and a student accommodation strategy for a university. So yeah, lots, lots going on, certainly busy, which I can't complain about, and it's just about to get busier as we move into peak season, I'm sure.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and I think, sarah, as our organiser, you've been downloading the UK Reef app and getting organised for that. So what are we going to do? I must say I'm absolutely delighted there's an app this year because I think I can speak on behalf of Deanie and myself, and potentially lots of other attendees last year, that it was quite difficult to manage such a busy program without an app. So basically, I went through the app and I searched for PBSA, co-living, vtr, later living and universities and I basically ticked yes to attend all of those sessions that were available to us. So that's how I started to build the program and I know on the day it's really difficult because your eyes get turned by different sessions and different speakers and sometimes you get waylaid talking to people that you're networking with and you maybe don't even make some of those sessions.
Speaker 1:But I think you know I like to be organised, I like a plan. So that's, I guess, where we'll start with our agenda and you know, hopefully we'll see many of the listeners there and if, hopefully we'll see many of the listeners there and if, if not, or even, or if you are, we have still got our really special uk podcast uk brief podcast episode with matt christie that we recorded a few weeks ago. That gave real insight into the event. So, yeah, hopefully, if you're attending, make sure that you listen to that before you go, because it'll give you a really good idea of kind of what goes into creating such a massive event as that, and and we'll see you in Leeds as well and we'll report back afterwards in the week after.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no we look forward to seeing you all in Leeds. So on with the show. As they say. Something that we have been looking at over the last couple of weeks is Housing Hand have recently released a survey that they did with renters and I think it's quite an eye opener and I guess really shows how little, or the mismatch between what kind of renters understand about the process and very much that learning on the job when you become a renter. It is all about what renters really understand. Mostly they said they thought they were literate in renting, but their responses, it seems, would suggest otherwise. For example, 63% don't know how long it takes to get their deposit back, 56% don't know what happens if housemates want to move out at different times, and 69% of respondents haven't actually heard of the renter's rights bill, with 75% of them don't understand really how it will impact them. So I think there's a lot of gaps there and there's a lot of question marks around. Who should be educating them on what the rental process is, what do they need to know, and who should be telling them that? So what should the sector do to educate people and ensure they understand better? And ensure they understand better, and I guess with a better understanding we'll see less problems for renters, for landlords, for agents around defaults and evictions and just understanding what is expected of both a renter and a landlord.
Speaker 1:Have you guys had a look at the report? Yeah, I've been digesting this. There's a lot in it and I think it will be really, really interesting for landlords, universities, student accommodation operators to really delve into it. Because I think you know I understand it from a sales point of view. You know you're trying to get as many tenancies signed as possible. Maybe you don't, you don't care, not in a nasty way but you know if somebody signed an agreement, you take that at face value, that they understand what they're signing. But I'm sure that most of you listening, if you work with renters, have experienced the fallout afterwards. So somebody might sign a contract, but actually what it means when they think that they can give notice or that they're asking for their deposit back or they're late on payments, etc.
Speaker 1:It's probably very clear that they didn't understand what it was that they were signing. The student section of the report says that they didn't understand what it was that they were signing. The student section of the report says that they get 37% of their. 37% of them get their information from family and only 8% get their information about housing from universities. And obviously it's great that they're relying on family but, you know, potentially some of that information is maybe outdated or based on personal experiences or maybe from family that aren't UK based and aren't actually familiar with what it is like to rent in the UK. So I think having 8% get their information from university and 2% from school, I think that's the area that really needs to be looking at, kind of what they're doing with educating people and it's. You know, I think you know I can probably say that all universities have got a section about renting off campus or you know, or even on campus, but I don't think that I'm really seeing those kind of frequently asked questions about the nuances, about tenancy agreements and, yeah, that's clearly where the misalignment is.
Speaker 1:But, yeah, absolutely fascinating, like you said, Dini, very, very eye-opening and a bit eye-opening for me as a parent as well. You know, I've got teenagers. I've got one that's going to be leaving home this year to go to university, you know, and do we talk to our kids enough about housing and renting and contracts? Definitely not. So yeah, I take it as a kind of personal mission myself to kind of educate my kids and their friends as well. So, yeah, I really recommend that people download the report. What about you guys? Dan, what did you take from it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think. I think it's great, especially it's great to see Housing Hand, who have got so many data points within the student accommodation sector, not not just PBSA but HMO. I'm really worried by the financial illiteracy of school leavers in particular, and me having been one of them. Obviously, I think our personal social education or personal sex education, whatever you want to call it the PSHE lessons I think they are woefully lacking. It's not funny at all, it's quite a sad story.
Speaker 2:I woke up early one morning on honeymoon in the Maldives and wrote out a curriculum for PSHE lessons that I think should be implemented. I just think that we are woefully lacking when it comes to your typical sort of budgeting, like the costs for lacking when it comes to your typical sort of budgeting, like the costs for you know what does it actually cost to rent, to buy, and then what do you actually need in terms of renting and buying and what are you going to be showing to landlords, et cetera. And I know that there's differences between HMO and PBSA, but I just think there's such a gap there that someone's got to fill in some way, shape or or form, which is a very different podcast entirely, but surely we should be providing a really simple document or app that covers all of this in some way, shape or form. Now I know that you have to when, if you're with student hmo, you have to give out how to rent guide. That's a government mandated document explaining your rights and responsibilities as a renter and that'll no doubt change with the renter's reform bill but you don't have to do that for PBSA, so you know that's a bit confusing.
Speaker 2:And then if you're an international student, again that's not required. So I just think we need to take it back to basics and understand that there is a real illiteracy about how to rent a property by students, by general tenants, and standardize that process completely. And I know that's what the Renters Reform Act or Renters Reform Bill is going to do. But I can't help thinking that it shouldn't have to be mandated by government. It should just be a very simple. It could even have been a commercial enterprise that stepped in and did all of this, but yeah, I just think there's such a gap that needs to be filled in PBSA and HMO, but also across the general rental sector.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I totally agree. There's lots of things in life. The two key things you're going to need is one is a pension and one is you're going to have to live somewhere. So you're going to need is one is a pension and one is you're going to have to live somewhere. So you're going to need to be able to know what the process of renting is and what the process of buying is.
Speaker 1:And I think you know, when I go back to when I moved out of home, I don't think I probably read the contract. I don't think my parents told me to read the contract. I think I just signed it and it's probably one of the first big contracts of big financial value that you're going to sign. And I know we're all probably guilty of not reading contracts that we sign, but we probably do it with an idea. We'll have read most contracts and I know it's going to have this, this, and you glimpse through it and you go, yeah, that's okay, but probably should be the one that you kind of do digest and understand and read. And I agree, sarah, it's got to come from schools, it's got to come from universities.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll tell you. The positive thing about ChatGPT, in particular here, is that you're going to get a lot more people analysing their contracts, whether it be their.
Speaker 2:AST or any deposit protection information, and they're going to be prompting ChatGPT and saying could you pull out any worrying clauses or anything that doesn't look as it should or anything that's non-standard. I think that's really going to help because I think it will mean that students and tenants feel more empowered to flag anything to either rogue landlords or general landlords to say actually I think I need a break clause in here or this doesn't adhere to the Renters Reform Act or whatever it might be. So I think that ChatGPT will or any other LLM will certainly have a role to play here in pulling out all of the required information.
Speaker 1:Although, dan, you're assuming that young people are using and know how to use that, and I think maybe we're in a bubble where we think that everybody's using it. But I've spoken to my kids about it and they're not being taught about AI and chat GPT at school, probably because schools are terrified that students are going to use chat GPT to do their homework. So I think actually it's probably something that maybe when you're at university that you start to kind of understand and maybe get a grip on. But maybe that first year of renting maybe you're still very much kind of understand and maybe get a grip on, but maybe that first year of renting maybe you're still very much kind of I don't know shielded, sheltered from AI potentially. Yeah, I think it's a great idea if people are using it for that purpose, but I'm not sure that we're quite on that massive kind of snowball effect of ChatGPT for using it for those purposes yet, and Dini and I were just having a chat about us not really knowing how to use it. We still need a lesson from you, dan, because you clearly do know how to use it and we think we could probably make our work lives more efficient from using it in certain ways, but anyway we digress.
Speaker 1:I think one thing that also struck me about this rental literacy is young people starting their rental lives in university accommodation and maybe some of them then going to pbsa and even sometimes in co-living and btr.
Speaker 1:I think they're shielded from a lot of these things that have come up in the survey. So, for example, only 47 percent of students know how to set up contracts for utilities, compared to 82 percent of professionals. Now that's probably because if a lot of them are in university accommodation or pbsa, they don't need to set up utilities, you know. So maybe that is shielding them and pushing those kind of decisions later. Also, 47 percent of students know that it's the tenant's responsibility to have contents insurance, compared to 61% of professionals. And for me that's like a really, really scary statistic because if you've got university accommodation in PBSA, move into an HMO it's not included and you've got a room full of expensive equipment in a house that maybe is in a vulnerable area, without an alarm or without double locks, etc. Etc. You're going to get caught out and that's a really, really basic thing that I think probably should be covered at universities, probably should be, covered at universities.
Speaker 1:It should, although I am also thinking to play devil's advocate. It's actually no one told us and we worked it out somehow. And actually is there something about that? We do still need to to be able to work things out, and that's my fear with AI is that we're going to lose the ability to think for ourselves, which but that's my personal opinion and scares me slightly. But yeah, idiocy is coming is coming, true I think that's a really interesting point.
Speaker 2:But I and, yeah, university is there for life experience, a lot of it. It's not just the academic qualifications that you, that you end up with, but we know that students like simplicity. They want everything on a plate, they want it instant, and that's where ai can definitely step in and help out, for sure. But, yeah, I think there's a certain, there's a certain amount that has to be streamlined within. You know all of the documents that you get through from your landlord or your letting agent or from your pbsa. Now I think think what's happening with ChatGPT is it is streamlining, consolidating a lot of the legal jargon that doesn't necessarily need to be there, and so we've got to see and I think we will see a lot more of that.
Speaker 2:I think that contracts will become simpler and will become more summaries, and I do think that that's where that's what we need to be doing. I don't think there's anything wrong with putting it on a plate for students to make it easier for them Think about the international students and also it just allows them to focus on their academics as well. I know I just said it's about life experience as well, but surely we want to just make things easier for people. I think so great that Housing Hand are flagging quite a few of these pain points, and there's definitely things that can be done by PBSA operators, but in particular HMO landlords, to simplify things. That is, if they want it to be simpler for students and they don't have any clauses in there that are deliberately holding students to unnecessary hardship, I would say so.
Speaker 2:I think there's there's a lot more work that needs to be done there, but AI will definitely help.
Speaker 1:I think it is just about having a place that people can find this information in, a clear, all-in-one place that says if you're going to look to rent, these are the things you need to be aware of and these things you need to consider. So you've got that checklist of questions you need to ask, the things you need to do, and actually what this report does highlight is around the renter's rights and lack of awareness that we've discussed before. I think the lack of awareness for renters about actually that there is this whole new act coming about that is going to that is there to make life better for renters and obviously the government have a big job to do to get that out there to make life better for renters and obviously the government have a big job to do to get that out there. And I think this research really does highlight that actually there's this massive gap around renters' rights, which is the biggest change and shake up for renters for centuries and it's coming soon and it's coming fast and it's very difficult nowadays to get those messages out to that generation, that younger generation, because they've got bombarded from measures everywhere. So there is a lot of work to do around renters rights in this area. I think that's been my concern throughout the whole of renters rights is that it puts a whole load of onus on the renter, which is great in lots of areas, but it's a lot of onus on young, vulnerable renters and potentially a lot of international renters in this country as well who suddenly, you know, are going to have to give notice and they're going to have to communicate with their flatmates and give notice together, and you know all of those things. So, yeah, I think it's even more important now.
Speaker 1:I mean, if I was an operator and I've read this report, the first thing I would do is to go onto my website and update my FAQs, because it tells you exactly where the FAQs are and where people are. You know, and this understanding, I think then I would probably put a social media campaign together, you know, dissecting this and telling you know your potential tenants what to do and how to do it. You know, and, like I said, maybe there's a booklet that people can make with these in that is also translated into the key languages from your tenants. You know, I think that's probably one of the big knowledge gaps. You know, and I would then give it to. Potentially, if I'm using marketplaces or agents. I might create that booklet and give it to them and make sure that they're passing that information on. So, yeah, I think once you've read it, you'll probably be inspired to do something you know yourselves to make life better for renters.
Speaker 2:Surely there must be an app for that.
Speaker 2:Surely there is effectively a one stop shop for your AST and your tenancy agreement, for your inventory report, for your deposit protection information or your how to rent guide, your gas safety certificate, whatever else it might be, that is required by law or would just be pretty useful. You know emergency contact numbers, contact details for your landlords, your council tax certificate or whatever else it might be like. Surely there is that place now that operators could go to to say, right, well, just sign up to this, and then every single student or tenant, whether it's btr or co-living or pbsa or hmo, that signs up gets access to this, and that could be government run, it could be separate, it could be a commercial, a commercial entity that has all of that in effectively a data room. Now I've got that on on a personal level. I've got that because I've got that in my Dropbox and I have access to it and Emma has access to it, and so we know where all of our life insurance documents are and you know pension information and whatever else it might be.
Speaker 2:Surely there is something that is as simple as that, a sort of document repository that any sort of landlord or operator could send out to the tenant so that everything is in one place and it walks them through the process, it gives them all the information they need as they go and then ultimately, the idea is that you then have some kind of chat, gpt or such like to ask it any questions and it will pull all of that information. I know that there is one that is similar, called Findable, for operators to use, which effectively pulls out all of your any information from your SOPs and things like that. You know, if you've got a problem with ghost ants or whatever it might be, then you say, like, well, what do I do about ghost ants or whatever it might be? Then you you say like, well, what do I do about ghost ants? And it gives you the most relevant information based on your sops and you know any other information. So, yeah, surely something like that exists and if not, it should be created.
Speaker 2:There's an open source business idea there for everybody yeah, I think.
Speaker 1:Well it has. I'm sure it does exist on. Technology is definitely there and someone just needs to put it together. I guess the big question that we have always in this sector is someone's got to invest in it, which seems to be the barrier to entry all the time. But it is a fascinating report and there's lots of key areas that is of use to listeners and will be helpful for their tenants and prospective tenants, and we recommend you check out Housing Hands' LinkedIn page and download the report First.
Speaker 1:Before we go on to our next content topic, we're just going to hear from our sponsor. Wash Station proudly sponsor this episode of Housed. We provide best-in-class laundry solutions that complement your buildings Wash Station, smart, green, clean. Once again, thank you very much for Wash Station for supporting our podcast, and obviously we had a big discussion on laundry last week, so thank you for your insight there. That was fascinating.
Speaker 1:Another piece of data that caught our eye was from Student Crowd, who are always releasing relevant and up-to-date data, and this piece of research was around Glasgow and asking why thousands of students are being priced out of Glasgow and what happens if nothing changes. Just to give you a little more information about the research, glasgow has over 73,000 students who are mostly domestic and around 35,000 need housing, but there's actually only 21,000 beds that exist, which leaves 14, bed shortfall. For 25 26, the market is buoyant and there is 11 000 beds being planned, which could flip Glasgow the other way into oversupply within the next five years. We've seen big increases in rents over the years. In 24 25, it was 18 percent. In 23 24 it was nine percent. But we did have the smallest increase last year at 5.3%. Suggesting rental prices may have peaked and over 30% of those students at Seek Friends between £150 and £179, but actually the average in the city is £212, which prices many people out, and only 23% can afford £210 to £239. And if trends continue, that's just 7.5% that can be able to afford housing within the next two cycles.
Speaker 1:So there's a lot of things that that report has released and issues around pricing, ability to pay, around beds being built. Are they the right beds? What did you guys both make of that report? Yeah, I mean, I love the student crowd data. I think this laid it out very, very clear and it's predicting the future, isn't it? It's basically saying that there's a pattern here. It's already not in a great situation. What happens if it carries on?
Speaker 1:I think one thing that I probably would caveat it with is just because students are only searching in a particular price bracket doesn't necessarily mean they can't afford more. Sometimes they're searching because that's their ideal price bracket and clearly that's what happens with. You know, with people looking for any prices, it's the same when you buy. You know you have a budget for a pair of trainers or you have a budget for a car. You know, usually you end up spending a little bit more.
Speaker 1:So I think there's probably a little bit of variance in those price brackets, but the difference in where the majority of students are searching and the average price is quite different. You know we're not talking about, you know, a £10 a week price difference. It's quite significant, you know. So I think the data is here. As we always say, you know, the operators, the investors, the developers have got all of the price in hand, and if they choose to increase their prices higher than what the market is telling them that the prices should be, then you know they are going to have occupancy difficulties in the future, you know. So I just think that it couldn't be more clear really.
Speaker 2:So I love Glasgow as a market. I've had 900 beds there before with Nido and they performed incredibly well. With Resi Consultancy we've done four different market reports there over the course of the last year for investors and developers looking at building or buying PBSA and they clearly see it as somewhere that's very strong. But I think with some of the headlines things like you know that there's a shortfall of 14,000 beds and some of these other data points coming out of the agents in particular, there's a real lack of trust around whether that's legitimate and that's where Resi Consultancy can step in and say, yes, look, glasgow does have a shortfall here. Some of it is being taken up by BTR and there's a huge student cohort in BTR in all BTR properties. It's similar to Leeds in that way, where there's a very strong BTR presence and it's growing and that pipeline's growing. But I think there is a real lack of understanding as to whether or whether students are actually living in BTR. So there needs to be more investigation there on a local level by the council in particular, which shouldn't be too difficult to you know. Look at those council tax exemptions within BTR for the students that are living there to really work out whether or not there really is that 14,000 bed shortfall. Now the universities are very strong. All three of the universities are extremely strong universities in different subjects as well, so that's a really good start. The city itself, brilliant city, really good university city, lively nightlife, lots of retail cafes, bars, a few clubs here and there as well, so it's really strong. The pipeline is also pretty strong as well. So maybe there will come that kind of tipping point which will bring that occupancy down, because every council is very aware that the only way to really make rents cheaper is by building more, and then every operator gets more competitive, whether it's PBSA, btr or the university halls they all get more competitive. Look at Nottingham. Nottingham is a great example where the rents are falling because there's a huge pipeline that has come to fruition, so that has been realised, and there's thousands of beds that have come online and those rents are now dropping, and that is because the occupancy is dropping and in some cities it is now below 70%. It's not just Coventry that is around that mark anymore. In fact, coventry has gone the other way. So it'll be interesting to see some more stats from there.
Speaker 2:But I think that Glasgow is a very strong market. I think that it does need to bring the average occupancy down from the 97% average occupancy down from the 97% 98% that it previously was. We need to take into account BTR and the quicker we can drop that occupancy level for students, the cheaper their rents will be overall. So I would take some of the sort of shortfall of 14,000 beds with a pinch of salt. I do think we need more development there, but it has to be in the right places and from our work with the council and our conversations with the council, we know that there is a preference for they don't want that ghettoisation of student. They don't want that concentration of student product in one place. They would rather it was sort of spread across the city, nice and evenly. So again, something to take into account. But yeah, glasgow is such a strong market.
Speaker 1:And I think we've probably got a few other things discussed in there. So first we're going to quickly go to a break to hear from our sponsor and then we'll be back. This episode is brought to you by Utopia, the smart building platform that helps real estate owners protect the value of their assets.
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Speaker 1:So still on glasgow, I absolutely agree. Kind of what you've both said and I guess the big thing is still is still that mismatch of pricing. And I think, sarah, I think you're right, people can always often go a little bit more, but I still think there is a threshold and what we don't know about this supply of beds is what are they? Are they more affordable? Are they more of the same? And I think it's very clear that the information is there for investors and developers to see what the problems are.
Speaker 1:You're absolutely right, dan, that doesn't. You know you've got to take into consideration BTR and other housing in the city and fill those gaps around what we're building. You know we don't need to build PBSA the same as we always have, because we're going to end up with the same pricing we always have, because we're going to end up with the same pricing. So I think it's about being smart, about looking at this data and seeing what can we build, where can we get closer to those price points? Because there isn't as much money as there used to be for people and that doesn't look like that's going to be changing anytime soon. So we've got to find a way to bring down those thresholds, because people can only stretch.
Speaker 2:So so far, I think I agree that affordability is going to be that the tipping point, and I think Nottingham, again, is a really good example. The Nottingham Trent University accommodation is expensive. There is, there is no two ways about it and I think that some of the accommodation for from the universities in Glasgow is also very expensive and I think that will start to push people away from that city. Now, glasgow is probably slightly different. It's very much like a capital city, it's not like a regional city. And so you know, with three incredibly strong universities, just like Edinburgh has as well, I think that there is a bit of a risk that Glasgow will push people away because the accommodation is getting too expensive.
Speaker 2:But, as I said, like we've seen in Bristol, like we've seen in Nottingham and various other places too, so the more that we can get built in the right locations and the right stock, the better, and that will increase that competition. It's not about let's build affordable, because you just can't do that. It's very difficult to build affordable, and what even is affordable these days? I think that the more you build, that occupancy level will average out hopefully to around the 80% mark and I say hopefully for the students benefit, not for the investors, and at that point. For me, that is the point where you start to see significant competition in the market, and so you'll get cheaper rents, you'll get better offers, you'll get more choice for the student and, yes, there'll be some developers and investors that don't make as much money as they could or should ultimately, but the returns will still be there. The students will get a better product, varied products and a more affordable product.
Speaker 1:I don't disagree with anything that you said there. But I think from a strategic point of view, what we see over and over again is that realisation of the occupancy rates and the kind of rental expectations only hits around May, june time and then the prices are dropped and it's massively damaging to the sector and it's a really, really unhealthy kind of behaviour cycle that we see and the students know it as well. So I think for a healthy kind of student accommodation ecosystem, you know, plan your pricing, make it the price that you kind of want to set, without any discounts or incentives, and stick to that from when you launch the pricing, and that's the only way that the cycle can kind of be sustainable really. And because otherwise you see the prices drop towards the end of the season and then it's really really hard to balance that out when you're price setting for the next season. And then it's really really hard to balance that out when you're price setting for the next season, because if people have had their prices dropped significantly or massive, massive incentives and you're trying to attract rebookers, then whatever you set your prices at the next year is going to probably seem like a massive increase compared to the discount that you were giving at the end of the season. So then it's really really hard to stabilise. It's really really hard for the marketing team to market that and meet their rebooking targets as well.
Speaker 1:So I think now Student Crowd have told you this is coming and the data's there and they'll have data on this through all other cities as well in the UK. The information is there for you to be price setting correctly and sustainably. Yeah, I mean a big thank you to student crowd for sharing that data and if you haven't got a relationship with student crowd, do reach out because I think, as we've just explained, understanding the market, understanding what's coming up, is going to be how we're all going to work smarter and be better and deliver what we need to do. I'm sure all those topics will be something we'll come back to on How's another time. So a big thank you to my student halls for being our headline sponsor for the season. Your support is hugely appreciated and, of course, thank you to you, toby and Ross Station, for coming on board for season four.
Speaker 1:We are grateful for your support. If you work in the PBSA, BTR, co-living, HMO and university accommodation sectors and enjoy our weekly podcast, please give it a rating and review it on your podcast channel of choice. But for now, we will see you next week.