Housed: The Shared Living Podcast

The Collaboration Revolution in European Student Housing Featuring Kelly-anne Watson and Frank Uffen from The Class Foundation

• Sarah Canning, Deenie Lee and Daniel Smith

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In episode two in this three-part mini series we are focusing on regional frameworks and some of the lessons learned from the key four markets of the UK, Italy, Spain and the Netherlands.

Dan, Deenie and Sarah are joined by Kelly-anne Watson and Frank Uffen to discuss:
• National action frameworks being developed to coordinate housing responses in key European markets
• UK faces challenges with PBSA not being included in national housing numbers
• Nottingham housing strategy highlights how universities can see accommodation as part of student success
• Spain emerging as a leader in collaborative approaches to student housing development
• Innovative hybrid models in Spain allow residences to function as hotels in summer months
• Cross-sector learning between student housing, hospitality and co-living driving innovation
• Cultural contexts differ across Europe, with religious organizations historically providing housing in Spain/Italy
• Data-driven research helping identify what amenities students actually need versus marketing-driven additions
• Growing interest in shared accommodation models to address affordability challenges
• Investment conditions need to be understood alongside community needs for successful development

Those who are interested in learning more about what The Class Conference is all about, or want to book their tickets can visit our/the website : www.theclassfoundation.com/conference

A huge thank you to the sponsor of this mini series, MyStudentHalls - find your ideal student accommodation across the UK.

Speaker 1:

Hello everyone and welcome to this very special episode of How's the Shared Living podcast. Today marks the second in our special three-part ministry series in partnership with the Clouse Foundation. We can't wait to learn more about the regional housing strategies required to meet 3.2 million beds of unmet demand. Firstly, introductions. I'm Deanie Lee from the Property Marketing Strategists.

Speaker 2:

I'm Dan Smith from Resi Consultancy.

Speaker 1:

And I'm Sarah Canning from the Property Marketing Strategists. And here's a word from our sponsor. Housed is sponsored by Spotlight Boost. On mystudenthallscom, use Spotlight Boost to stand out in search results and drive more leads to your properties. Thank you to my Student Halls for sponsoring this mini-series of Housed. We really do appreciate it. The Spotlight product is such a great tool for PBSA operators at this time of year. Do contact Dan and the team for more information.

Speaker 1:

Now on with our show and a very warm welcome back to Kellyanne, managing Director at the Class Foundation, and Frank Buffon, co-founder the CLASS Foundation, chair of the TSH Talent Foundation and partner of the Social Hub. Welcome to you both. Good to be back. Yeah, thank you, great to have you back. We loved the last episode and we're sure our listeners did so. We've got lots more to talk about today, kellyanne. In the last episode we discussed some of the high level frameworks and initiatives across Europe, but today we want to discuss in more detail what this means for the UK, italy, spain and the Netherlands. Why are these regions important and why not other regions?

Speaker 3:

Yes, I think we decided to pick these regions because a lot of our partners are either already in these markets or find these markets interesting in terms of being able to deliver more student housing stock, also in terms of where they are in their kind of professionalization of PBSA and knowingness whether that's at a policy level or a university level around this type of housing stock. So please do not get me wrong that there are absolutely other markets that also need some love and attention and a framework, but we decided to start where we already have these kind of networks and communities and build on that, and the reason why they're so important is just well, one is that in most of these markets, there isn't at the moment a coordinative effort around being able to deliver more housing stock, whether that is because there has been a response to the growing number of international students, or success of the universities, which has created pressure in many of these housing markets universities, which has created pressure in many of these housing markets and that there isn't really a representative body or voice or strategy around being able to alleviate some of these stresses, and I think the numbers speak for themselves. So in the Netherlands, we've been working with JLL to identify what the unmet demand is. So 3.2 million is at a European level, but ata more localized level or national level. In the Netherlands, we've identified that around 100,000 more beds need to be built in the next five years.

Speaker 3:

In Italy 240,000 beds, spain 310,000 beds and in the UK 198,000 beds. And as these strategies have been evolved, as you heard from the previous episode, from the kind of Dutch national action framework that was created by the housing ministry, we have decided to use this as a foundation but adapt it to each of these markets, and they have their own challenges and problems in each of these markets. But I think creating these national targets whilst also centralising and coordinating a monitor for the housing markets, that we can make better informed policy decisions, as well as coordinating whether this is a body or a person or however that looks to make sure that the success of these frameworks is achievable, is really the three main core themes and outcomes for each of these frameworks.

Speaker 1:

That's great and can you tell us kind of, you've obviously done that work on the unmet demand and what are that? What is that based on the unmet demand?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so the unmet demand is actually it has been is a methodology and analytic of the current trends in each of these markets.

Speaker 3:

So it looks at what the current provision rate is in each of these markets. What is the potential number of students that will be present in that market, from both a domestic and an international number as well. Please note that also this number is for any type of student housing stock as well. So I think that's also really really important. So this is actually the minimum number. So, with the growth or the decrease in international numbers and domestic numbers and the current stock that is available international numbers and domestic numbers and the current stock that is available whether that's HMOs, btr which is a little bit black and white because it's not a very well-established product type same with co-living in a lot of these markets, so it's quite difficult to say that this is the exact number as well as the PBSA market, they can make an assumption on what is the real minimum number of housing that will be needed in each of these markets by 2030. So that's how we have come to this reality around these numbers.

Speaker 2:

As music to my ears. In particular, I spend a lot of time moaning about agents and their unrealistic numbers in terms of the supply demand gap. So great to be factoring in HMO, in particular, btr as well, and co-living, because in the UK obviously there's quite a high proportion of students living in BTR as well. So that's great. That sounds really comprehensive. So well worth everybody diving into the data there and having a look at that, and I think that gives the most all-encompassing view of actually what is the supply gap. What should that provision look like? And not just we've got X number of PBSA beds and X number of students and therefore X number of students can't access PBSA. So yeah, I think that's really really key. So great work on being so thorough with the numbers there.

Speaker 1:

No, that's great. So I think let's deep dive a bit more into these regions to find a bit more detail. Most of our listeners are in the UK, but what are the challenges you've found regarding policy, and have you seen any positives around what is working in the UK market?

Speaker 3:

So I think around the challenges is still PBSA and student housing not being included in the national housing numbers, I think first and foremost. I think secondly is around the new legislation and policies that are coming through the door without a real understanding of the impacts of what this would be on the sector at large. And I think you know Unipol's work around including PBSA providers that are in the national code, being exempt to some of these regulations, is also, you know, a positive for the sector, although I think can also be challenging in other areas, such as after my conversation with Victoria from Unipol explaining that HMOs and BTR, for example, will not be included and then exempt. So I think that also brings challenges within itself because they are a housing solution and provider for students. So I think that is also a continued conversation that needs to happen. And then, as I mentioned, just this lack of accountability and voice around the PBSA market itself as well. So so you know there's lots of challenges there, but I think some of the positives are definitely examples, like strategies such as the nottingham housing strategy that looked at pbsa as as a real potential for housing students. I think it was really interesting that the university saw this as an opportunity to increase also the kind of I'm going to say brand, but also experience of being at university. They really saw this as a as as part of the success student success factor and I think that's been a real positive. And I know a lot of investors now see this market as a risk market maybe, but the operators and investors that are present in that market can see a long term viable business case for this market because they understand what the long term regulation is and that this university is going to continue to thrive because they have a good housing plan in place.

Speaker 3:

We had London authorities present at our event, which was in London on the 17th of July.

Speaker 3:

I think also things like that is really interesting that they are seeing that they actually have a PBSA person that's dedicated to making sure that student housing and PBSA are part of the London plan.

Speaker 3:

I think there's still a lot of work to do, but I spoke with the representative from there and she mentioned that a kind of committee group will be involved in helping continue to shape and coordinate the efforts of building more PBSA in London Andon, and I think that's also really, really positive. But again, this is it's still quite segmented and is absolutely localized, and I think bringing that up to a national level and having some of these national targets and being able to positively and proactively shape policies that are going to help the delivery of the right type of asset I think that's also really important Still needs to happen and be coordinated and I know, dan Frank, we've spoken many, many times of who that should sit with and how the sector can at least help mobilise that and be more proactive in that setting. But there's opportunity here and I think the National Action Framework is a starting point for this to happen.

Speaker 1:

We were discussing kind of off air kind of there's still this kind of narrative in the UK about yield and investment and returns. Is that helpful or unhelpful for what you're trying to achieve?

Speaker 4:

Yeah, that's a very interesting question. I think it's one of the realities that we have to bring into the conversation. I think if it's the only conversation you have, then obviously it's not really a shared solution or a shared problem. When we started the Class Foundation, it was really about bringing different stakeholders together and find common ground. So how can I understand your perspective on the housing market and what can I do to contribute to that, or what are the conditions for me to do so? And although the UK is a very mature market from an investment perspective, and it has obviously performed very well.

Speaker 4:

I think you see now also the accountability coming into the sector's conversations Single purpose buildings, not really attractive for the neighborhood how can we, as PBSA builders and operators, be also meaningful to the community? How can we integrate some of the affordability challenges into our business models? So those, I think, are, you know, critical questions from other stakeholders that also the investors need to understand. At the same time, when we talk, for example, in other European countries, especially on the government side or the education side, there's very little awareness of the rules of international capital and the need for assets to perform competitively, and this is also something that we see is important. We need to explain how markets work, what the conditions are, which conditions need to be in place for international capital to be investing in places like Italy and Spain, and so, yeah, I think it's absolutely an important chapter of every conversation, like you know, are investment conditions in place. But it's not the only conference. It doesn't make student accommodation.

Speaker 1:

That's really interesting. And how, Frank, does Italy generally compare to kind of what we see in the UK market?

Speaker 4:

Oh, for us, what is exciting about it is this culture of collaboration, because I think, when I think of a lot of the conferences that I attended in the UK, and especially those that were more focused on investment and performance, you're listening often to a speech or a panel and then that's it. What we try to do with the class, and, in particular, activating our stakeholders now through these national action frameworks, is to bring people together and to create a culture of trust and exchange of information and understanding different perspectives, and that's something that, in Italy, was, in the beginning, like really new, so to say. There was a tradition of sort of like advocating from your position. There was not much dialogue or co-creation, if you like, of solutions. So this methodology that we have introduced now, by creating more like a town hall setting, by having more conversations, is really starting to be appreciated and asked for. It was very important that we were able to team up with the University of Milan is really starting to be appreciated and asked for.

Speaker 4:

It was very important that we were able to team up with the University of Milan, because they also play a very important role in terms of like, their reputation, they're very respected, so for us to be able to associate ourselves with institutions like that really helped us to get a seat at the table and to start having conversations about like okay, so what is the opportunity for italy, what are the challenges, etc. So I think that's, that's funny enough, maybe something that we have to go back to a little bit in the uk as well. Then we have to say like, okay, um, you know, it's not a battle. It's like it doesn't help if everyone is frustrated. Uh, like, how do we find ways to work together? And yeah, that's something that may be surprising is still the phase that we're in, not just in Italy and UK, but also in Spain and many other countries. So we're very honored and excited to start this development of a culture of collaboration.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's great and I think we spoke about this before we came online. I think that in the early days of the class, I think that sense of collaboration and going to those events is always there and it's great to see kind of you growing that collaboration across Europe. Kellyanne, how about Spain? A lot of our listeners might be familiar with Spain, but what are the challenges you're finding in?

Speaker 3:

that country. Yeah, Spain, Spain, for me, has been one of the most exciting markets, and I think it's just because Spain are maybe more mature than some of the other markets, such as Italy, but are not as well established as the UK. So they're kind of in this position now. It's quite unique that that they are really helping shape the sector, but have're kind of in this position now. It's quite unique that they are really helping shape the sector but have the weight behind in terms of already number of beds and kind of developed brands in these markets. So what we're seeing is some really strong leaders.

Speaker 3:

I think, for me, the most wonderful thing is actually the voices that we're finding.

Speaker 3:

So these are Martha, the CEO of Reza, is really active in helping lead these conversations.

Speaker 3:

Pavlina from EQT some really phenomenal voices that have really helped us to also reach the kind of the public stakeholders, the institutional stakeholders as well, that are needed to help build and deliver these frameworks.

Speaker 3:

I also think it's quite interesting in terms of in some of these markets, such as Barcelona, they've recently had some quite intense pressure from well, maybe more political pressure around the asset class itself and what we've seen is the sector go OK, we're going to put down our competitiveness. We believe in what we're doing and that there's a huge opportunity here to to kind of create this collective agenda and and really have a culture shift, and I think they're quite leading in terms of the asset class itself in doing this and being able to achieve this. So, yes, the framework has been there to establish some guidance and some recommendations, but we're really seeing an active market and accountability from the market in taking some of these challenges forward and getting stuck in and I think that's something to be really, really proud of in the Spanish market and accountability from the market in taking some of these challenges forward and getting stuck in, and I think that's something to be really, really proud of in the Spanish market.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, what's also interesting is that Spain is really developing its university sector and it's becoming more and more competitive in Europe. So it was, of course, always an interesting destination for our study abroad program. But now it's not only the most popular Erasmus program destination, but it also has a lot of programs that compete globally, especially at universities like IE in Madrid. So you see that this makes the sector also really, really important, because, as housing is lacking or sufficient housing is lacking in many of the university cities, there's a real opportunity and the sector has shown that this can grow. But what is also interesting in that context is that it's one of the innovative markets as well. So what I really discovered in terms of the links with the UK is that, for example, a lot of universities and PBSA partners have experimented with more hybrid models.

Speaker 4:

So when we first started working in Spain, it was exciting to see some of the universities like operating some of their residences as hotels in the summer, or develop summer school programs that were more based on a hotel concept, so they could lower their rents during the rest of the year, and that's something that we've heard also recently from LSE as something that they really believe is a powerful tool.

Speaker 4:

So it brings back this importance of understanding what kind of solutions work locally to be able to deal with specific market conditions.

Speaker 4:

And I say this in particular in the context of having or advocating for student accommodation in a national plan or in a building in a planning code, because the great thing is that it's being recognized, but it usually comes with a lot of restrictions and limitations that not necessarily always serve the market.

Speaker 4:

So what we see in Barcelona, for example, if you operate it under this special provision in the planning code, you're very limited in terms of being able to generate additional revenue sources outside of the PBSA, the student residence. So that, for example, yeah, makes it. You know, the price is very, very high. So I see, like models that are more hybrids that the universities have worked with, that Reza, one of the leaders in Spain, have worked with, and also our model ourselves here that we've worked with at the social hub. That is really exciting to see now that you know there's an understanding that, yes, there's need for regulation and building codes to support and stimulate student accommodation, but we should always be aware that we should not kill innovation by making it too limited. So that's something that we think is really relevant for the uk as well yeah, I was also.

Speaker 3:

What we're seeing in, uh, southern european countries as well, so so Italy and Spain in particular, is also there's a lot of initiative around PPPs and looking at redevelopment areas. So not just looking at locations that are smack bang in the city centres, which are still obviously really important, but we're seeing huge schemes at scale which is something quite new for these regions of full redevelopment areas and they're being included in full city redevelopment plans. So looking at connectivity, green spaces and other wonderful things that are really helping bring areas that had no residence and were not really fit for purpose anymore completely redeveloped. And what's wonderful is a lot of the time this is driven by the universities, their ambitions to expand and find new areas to create classrooms and so on, and they're doing it in partnership with our partners community, and I think that's wonderful.

Speaker 2:

That element of collaboration is absolutely key. I think we're moving into an era of flexibility in the UK as well Now. Europe has kind of pioneered this, and Frank, the social hub and the student hotel, as its previous guys, has really pioneered that, and I think we're going to start to see more of that in the UK as we move into these sort of areas of flexibility, affordability, sustainability. I think it's really important that there are places where people can come to collaborate, to share best practice and really sort of understand what those common themes are. All too often I think we're quite arrogant in the UK saying, well, it's just UK and Europe. Too often I think we're quite arrogant in the UK saying, well, it's just UK and Europe. You know, and actually every single European country is totally different, with a totally different mindset, agenda, supply, demand ratio and capital profile in terms of who's investing and where. So why do you think it's important to look to other regions and in particular for the UK to look to Europe, but also just general collaboration there across countries?

Speaker 4:

I mean, for me it's always the you know why not, right? So if you can take advantage of the fact that there are others trying to do something similar, but maybe in a slightly different way, it helps you, you know, to stay ahead of the game and to continue to innovate. The pressure is obvious, right? So whether it's from a societal perspective that people don't accept the, the old school single purpose buildings that maybe were, you know, totally okay 20 years ago to also having more resilient properties, I think those are lessons that we've learned, also during Corona right, when some of us were really affected. And if you are able to adapt and have more flexibility in your business model and in your physical setup of the buildings, then that pays off. So for me, that's one part. It's also really interesting to challenge some of the assumptions that you have in each local reality.

Speaker 4:

I think it was also during our London Forum last week that one of the points raised is that often housing policy is something that has developed over decades and decades of policy and thinking.

Speaker 4:

You know decades and decades of policy and thinking.

Speaker 4:

But we also have to realize that some of the, you know, the biggest growing segments of our markets are people that are born and raised and come from different cultures, that you know have totally different ideas about housing and different needs when it comes to community and those things you know, you see, often kind of clashing a little bit when it comes to adaption. I recall, for example, in the netherlands, when the only model that you know was being built around 2010 was a, a unit with a its own bathroom, its own kitchen. That was basically the idea like, every student wants to live on their own but then came this huge new cohort of people that were more looking for a community versus number of square meters. So you see that, that the you know we have to adopt local housing models based on new, new types of demand, and I think that's probably still the case in in, you know, not just in europe, but also in the uk yeah, I was also just going to say you know we expect everything to Europe, but also in the UK.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I was also just going to say you know we expect everything to evolve, and the way people live and their lifestyles now have evolved. You know the day and the dawn of the internet and AI and how people connect with each other. You know we expect things to evolve, so why would we continue to do something that maybe isn't fit for purpose anymore? So I think you know it's an opportunity to have a conversation around what do people want and what do people need, and and I think this is an opportunity to do so as an, as an, as an asset class.

Speaker 1:

Are you surprised by the willingness for people to share, the willingness for people to share, or do you find that everybody kind of wants to keep their secrets to themselves and you know nobody else to get a competitive advantage? What are you finding kind of in those conversations across Europe? That's really interesting Both.

Speaker 4:

So we meet in some places where especially the dominant player tends to be the one that's like okay, you know, I'm the boss in this backyard, so please don't challenge it. But at the same time, one of the things that make you know, made us successful, also with the class in Europe, was this desire to go and see things and to meet other peoples that are also dealing with the same struggles. I mean, imagine that you're an operations manager of a new residence in Cordoba and you know you haven't been able to visit Porto yet, but then you get invited to this conference and you get to see all these other properties and you meet people that have the same job title as you. So that was a massive benefit, and I think we've been very conscious, and continue to, to always say, like you know, open your doors to your partners. You know you can only benefit from learning, from collaborating.

Speaker 4:

The pie is growing. There's no need to, you know, hide things, even if you've you know, in reality probably you can't right. I mean you can look up everything on on on the internet or. But I've seen countless people coming, you know, so to say, with sunglasses and a big head, into our buildings and like looking around, you guys want a tour. You know I'll show you around. So it's something that seems happening once, but it's, it's great to, to, to share, and you know you'll win.

Speaker 3:

You'll win I think you're right, though. The pie is big enough, and also we're a small sector. How many people in our sector have worked for other organizations as well? You know it's. I think we need to look beyond that and actually there's a competitive advantage of us working as a sector together, maybe even against other types of asset classes, instead of against each other, the. You know, the supply and demand in the majority of these university cities is still completely imbalanced and outweighed in terms of the, the number of students and the need to build more housing. So, yes, of course there's, there's going to be some competitiveness there, but sometimes I think we're competing with the wrong, with the wrong people, you know, work with each other. We can learn from each other, and I think this is an opportunity to do so, and that's why I'm really proud that we get to host these types of open conversations whilst opening our doors, as Frank said, to learn from each other.

Speaker 4:

And also with the co-living community, right, so it's also across different sectors. I mean, we learned so much from the hospitality industry, but when we started with the student hotel, at that time, you know, we had no hoteliers in in our, in our team, so it was something that was really, you know, like very had a big impact on us when we started incorporating knowledge and practices from from a sector that was not necessary, the student sector. And I see the same benefits and excitement coming from exchanges between co-living and PBSA, because we're both interested in community and maybe there's some slight differences, but the beautiful designs that we've seen, the amazing programming that you saw happening in co-living communities, it continues to inspire all of us. So it's absolutely important to be a resilient sector.

Speaker 2:

That evolution is really interesting In terms of the UK PBSA sector. I think that was born out of the university sector, to be honest, and halls of residence, whereas in Europe correct me if I'm wrong it's probably a bit more hospitality focused and it came out of, you know, shared apartments, less focus on halls of residence and more on. Well, you just go and live there, you find a, you know, you find a flat somewhere with someone, and maybe that's why the, the student hotel and social hub as it is now, has been able to really craft that existence and that best practice within hospitality, taking those learnings there, and I think actually in the uk we're probably that bit slower to learn from hospitality. What do you think about that?

Speaker 4:

yeah, it's an interesting question because I think you know, if you look actually pure sec at the market, you actually see a lot of universities residence halls, like Edinburgh for example, they have a lot of like hospitality included. But sometimes when you develop so quickly as a sector, you know you might do that on certain strengths when, as in Europe, when there was a sort of lack of student accommodation, as a sector, we had to go back to sort of the idea of like okay, what works, how, why, how can we explain that this is something that the should ask for or a university should support? And interesting that you make the historical context, because in spain and in italy and also in in the netherlands, for example, you had different types of organizations that were more care takers, like they were people that were taking care of students communities. So in the Netherlands it was fraternities, for example, that had their own houses and that then at some point institutionalized and became part of social housing corporations.

Speaker 4:

In Spain and Italy it was often religious organizations that were concerned with the kids when they moved to a big city. So they were like well, we better organize that housing ourselves, because then at least we have a sense of control what's going on in those residences. So collegio mayor is a is something that also was very much about sharing meals, like full board, having people that supported students that were struggling with studying, shared spaces. Those things were actually existing in those cultures long, long long before the PBSA sector really started coming into it. So, yeah, it's nice that you sometimes have to go a little bit further back to see that what's already in the DNA of a culture and then how can you update it and make it work. In a current context, you see that happening around Europe and I'm sure in the UK there's a lot more potential for it too.

Speaker 1:

So I think what we've learned from this conversation is that there's lots of examples of that collaboration and how that collaboration can bring innovation and drive change, and that we've got to learn from each other across sectors and across regions. And you, you're fundamental in kind of bringing all those people together and starting those conversations and and bringing that across. And how is the past foundation supporting?

Speaker 3:

yes, so obviously, um, these kind of round tables and forums are a big part in in bringing those people together, but we are also looking at what research and what data is missing or how do we centralize some of the data sets that are already available to the community itself. So we've been collaborating with legal firms globally, legal firms across the whole of Europe, and we did a fantastic report looking at the fiscal realities within each of these markets. We actually do cover 16 countries, which is obviously fantastic, but what we realized is actually the regulation. The tax is actually the regulation. The tax and the kind of legal conditions for PBSA investors and operators are very, very different in each of these markets. So just having one source of proof that is kept updated is really really important, and having it open source is also really really important. So to be able to kind of understand high level, what are each of these stakeholders, what are they meeting when they enter these markets or when they're actively delivering assets in these markets?

Speaker 3:

Another one is our student living monitor. We think the sector itself is doing some fantastic work on well-being in general. There's loads of stuff with, for example, unite, the living black black on campus a lot of uh like information on vulnerable groups, and even down to some of our competitors that also do some fantastic kind of 360 well-being reports, but what we still found that was missing was actually how do we measure the social impact of those buildings? So what directly do those services, amenities and support within each of those buildings have on the student itself? And I think this goes back to being able to connect the student success journey whilst they're in university as well as living in their accommodation, and what this has been able. Well, our hope is that long term, we can basically create a minimum standards and a blueprint of actually what type of assets and what type of living environments and communities do students thrive in, and this report wasn't created just to monitor the PBSA sector. It was also to look at student housing, all types of student housing, including all student experiences, including students that are living at home, students that live in the PRS, students that live in BTR or students that even live in PBSA. What are the differences, what are the nuances, but also what type of students thrive in those types of communities. So this is really a an opportunity for us to see and shape what the future of living will look like for different types of cohorts, instead of putting all students into one box, because, as we all know, where you want to live, dean, you might be a student, I might be a student, but where you want to live and where I want to live, dini, you might be a student, I might be a student, but where you want to live and where I want to live might be completely different. And I think, before and previously, and as we and I think as we've started to mature, we've started to realise that all students don't like the same things. So I think this is a real great opportunity to standardise, and I also think this is a great opportunity to have an affordability conversation as well, to have an affordability conversation as well.

Speaker 3:

There's been many, actually from our again our UK Living Forum that happened in July. Something that kept coming out was what is obsolete in terms of amenities, services and support. Now, what are the must-haves and what are the nice-to-haves, and many operators were saying that. Operators and investors were saying that they would still have a cinema room because it's a great marketing tool, but actually it doesn't get used while students live in it. So I think we can start to have real conversations around that as well.

Speaker 3:

Another thing that came up was the twin rooms, or triple rooms in some cases, and there was a lot of hesitation around do students actually want this? And somebody said, well, actually, if we don't try it, then we will never actually know. And there's still this idea of culture, understanding of what that means to the student as well. It might make it more affordable, but do they want it? How does that work? So I think these types of pieces of research help us to gain that type of understanding.

Speaker 3:

And then the final one is our investment barometer. So it's really about understanding what investors institutional investors and capital behind the brands are interested in. What are the drivers for them, what are their challenges, what are their thoughts and feelings around different policies and markets? But also, what are their thoughts and feelings around different policies and markets, but also how can we mobilize their efforts whilst also creating conditions that make it accessible, to create the availability that we need. So it goes beyond just saying, ok, everybody wants to invest in the UK. It's actually understanding the why and then the how. So for us really at the class, it's about creating data sets, but also using the data from in our community to make better informed decisions so that we can make impact and influence.

Speaker 1:

Now that's great and you've certainly energized me on being positive about the future and positive about that change. So a big, a big thank you to Kellyanne and Frank for joining us today. It was a fascinating deep dive into the amazing work you and the team are doing at the council class foundation. So a big thank you from us. If you do want to be involved in the movement, attend the conference or join a working group, check out the class foundation website or send an email to the team at info at theclassfoundationcom. And, of course, a big thank you to my student halls for sponsoring this mini season.

Speaker 1:

Join us for the next episode in the series on August, the 29th, where we will be talking about, and to the leaders of tomorrow. Thanks, guys, for a great chat, as always. Thank you to all those that are listening. We do appreciate your ongoing support and we're pleased that, from the feedback we're getting, that people are enjoying it. So a big thank you as ever. If there's anything that you want us to cover on any of the aspects of shared living, then please do get in touch, linkedin us, message us, whatever way you want to contact us. Please do. Thanks again and we will see you soon.