Housed: The Shared Living Podcast

Living away at University - the bad PR, Stigma of HMOs, Drivers in BTR and Co-Living and Is buying and selling houses about to get easier? Plus a BIG announcement!

• Season 5 • Episode 4

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In the latest of episode of Housed, Sarah Canning, Dan Smith and Deenie Lee discuss:
👉 Living away at university - is there a PR issue?
👉 Why is there a stigma about HMOs?
👉 The key drivers in BTR and Co-living
👉 Should developers and investors be worried about buying getting easier?

The episode includes references to the BBC News article 'Why more students like me are choosing not to leave home', the Harris Associates and VervLife 2025 Build-to-Rent Report & Co-Living Addendum and LandlordZONE article 'HMO 'stigma' blamed for drastic fall in shared houses.'

Stay up to date on Housed podcast via its LinkedIn page.

Dan Smith is Founder of RESI Consultancy and Co-Founder of Verbaflo.AI Good Management.

Sarah Canning and Deenie Lee are Directors and Co-Founders of The Property Marketing Strategists - Elevating Marketing in Property.

Thank you to our season four sponsors:
MyStudentHalls - Find your ideal student accommodation across the UK.
Utopi - The smart building platform helping real estate owners protect the value of their assets.
Washstation - Leading provider of laundry solutions for Communal and Campus living throughout the UK and Ireland.




SPEAKER_03:

Hello everyone and welcome back to How's the Shared Living Podcast. This is the fourth episode in season five. We're delighted to be back this week to bring you the latest news, views and insight from the world of shared living. And if you work in BTR, co-living, university accommodation, PBSA, HMOs or later living, you've come to the right place. I'm Sarah Canning from the Property Marketing Strategists.

SPEAKER_02:

Dan Smith from Resi Consultancy and Verberflow AI. And I'm Dini Lee from the Property Marketing Strategists.

SPEAKER_03:

And now a word from our headline sponsor.

SPEAKER_01:

Season five of Housed, sponsored by MyStudentTools.com. List your properties commission-free and reach thousands of students searching for their university home.

SPEAKER_03:

Thank you so much to Dan and the team from MyStudent Halls who have been supporters of House since the very beginning. We're incredibly grateful they are here once again as the headline sponsor of season five. And we know that anyone working in student accommodation at the moment is busy budget setting and rent setting. So make sure you get in contact with Dan and the team to make sure that you have My Student Halls in your budget for the 26-27 leasing season. And a huge thank you to Wash Station and Utopia for coming back and sponsoring House once again. More from them later. So today we've got a few bits of news and views to cover. First one that sparked my interest this week that I wanted to discuss is is there a PR problem with living away at university? I've been reading a few articles and it seems that on the theme of commuters, which we have been discussing the last few weeks, there seems to be this narrative about students saying they're okay not living away at university because they don't really drink anyway and they're not interested in the party lifestyle. And I found that quite interesting because understandably we know from kind of Gen Z and Gen Alpha, they're definitely moving away from that party lifestyle and moving towards what we believe is a kind of more healthier, wholesome kind of view on life compared to probably when we were at university. But do you guys think that that is impacting people deciding to live away at all, or is it still really about affordability?

SPEAKER_02:

I think I did read the article, and I think potentially there is a little bit of lazy journalism in there, in that let's talk about something that probably resonates with their readers, which is you know, the 90s kids of which I am one were the generation of binge drinkers, I'm afraid to say, so we probably did go. We probably did go after university because that was a big part of it. But I think having read the article, it is that the affordability is is the main thing I think that's impacting why people are choosing to stay at home. That said, I do think that parenting styles have probably changed over the last 25-30 years. I think you know, when we were growing up, helicopter parenting wasn't really a thing. And I was the first generation, or me and my siblings were all first generation to go to university in our family. So it was very much an aspirational thing for my parents to encourage us to get as well educated as we could. So we were really encouraged to move out and go away. Whereas I kind of feel that maybe those parenting styles have changed that actually there is more of a position of keeping people at home longer and protecting them and keeping them close. And that's the same actually if they go off to university anyway, where people are watching where they are on their phones and knowing where they are at every given point, which again wasn't something that we had when we went off to university. And I think Sarah and I, when your stepdaughter went off to university, we discussed this, and I didn't even have a mobile phone when I went off to university, so I probably called my parents after like two or three days after they dropped me off, kind of thing. They didn't have a clue where I was or what I was doing any of the time, whereas we've got such a different world now that they know that. So I think there's probably lots of things going on there. I think one of the biggest things is affordability, but I think there is we are moving to a place of where several generations live in a house. And that's going to impact the housing market anyway, because people can't then downsize who would like to downsize because they've got more people living at home. So I do think there's lots of different things going on here, but it still talks about people that would like to go and live, but it the cost is a big part of it, a big part of that decision making.

SPEAKER_04:

I totally agree, Deanny. And I think that I think it's I think this is the vast majority of this is actually down to affordability. I don't think it's necessarily, you know, I well, I certainly don't think that commuter students have been on the rise because students don't really want to drink. I think it misses the point a little bit, and and you know, university for some is about academics. I think if you're at Oxbridge, uh, yes, it's definitely about academics. I think if you're an international student, yes, you want to be focused on the Russell group, and and that seems to be a lot easier than it ever has been because they're dropping great boundaries left, right, and centre to get as many internationals in as they can. But there is now, I think, and and this is just anecdotal, me uh me sort of speaking to students, operators, universities, I literally just got off a call with a university, and I think that there is more focus on that residential life side of things. What's it, you know, what's it like living away from home? How independent can you be when you're not actually living with your parents? And and I think that is something that that you would that that I commuter students are going to miss out on. But I think that the primary driver of them missing out on that isn't because they think, you know, I don't want to be part of these Yeah, the the societies and I don't want to get into that drinking culture. I think it's down to that affordability piece. And and we need to we need better examples of why you know we we need better data as to why that's happened, more studies, more surveys. It'd be great to get loads on the next youth forum about that, but but I know from talking to various different sources, including the guys at UCAS, commuter students, are hugely on the rise. It says in the article that the number of students intending to live at home has doubled in the last 20 years, and I I think it there's only one way that this is going to go, and it's it's a real shame for those students who get who have to miss out because they cannot afford to live in uh at the place where they want to go to university. Now, what we may well see is that some students actually start to think I'm not going to go to Glasgow University or Bristol University or or you know anywhere in London. I'm going to go to the Sheffields or the Coventries or the Leeds where I know that I can get a really good deal on my accommodation. And I do think that that is just going to start changing where people go to university. I think there's probably a there there will be a correlation over the increase in applications to some of those universities where the accommodation is more affordable. And that's why we do need more PBSA to drop those rents, to get them more in line with with the Sheffields and the Coventries, and and I think that's where some investors will will get up-ended uh over the course uh if you know within the last couple of years. So lots to run at within that article. But uh firstly, I just uh it it's I think it's a shame if you're forced into living at home or or commuting being an option because university for me in particular was so much about you know moving away, being independent, and and I think to have that taken away from you is is um yeah, is is pretty sad, but it is probably the just the I think it's a real picture for for many students out there.

SPEAKER_02:

Just to add that, Dan, I just think it's delaying people getting that independence. And then when do you move out? If you don't go to university, when when do you go?

SPEAKER_03:

I I was a commuting student. Um I do feel like I I missed out. I was never really much of a partier or a or a drinker. It was more that that independence, really, I think. But I I like living at home with my family. I didn't see a problem with it. I would no one in my in my family had ever been to university, so I didn't know that that was the thing to do and what it what it would bring. What I will say is kind of talking to operators, particularly from a marketing point of view. I do think in PBSA a lot are moving more towards that study outcome side of things. I think we're up, you know, we're we're on layering, I guess, um some messaging that that may have been missing previously in PBSA. Kind of you're talking about, you know, what is that driver to go to university? Well, also what is that driver to live away from home? And actually, PBSA can support study outcomes and success and academia much better, probably in some respects than living at home can. So I think that is something, you know, that that PBSA don't really do that whole party lifestyle messaging anyway, because I think as a as a industry being very sort of cautious about glamorising alcohol or providing alcohol to residents. So I don't think that's ever been a problem for PBSA really. But I think particularly looking at socials, kind of being conscious that the, you know, using influencers that glamorise going out and partying and drinking, that's probably a little bit outdated now. And, you know, if there are students that that are really I guess a lot of students, high-achieving students are focused on what they're going to achieve, what their study outcomes are, and if universities, if PBSA can support those study outcomes, then that should be the messaging.

SPEAKER_02:

And I think that there's plenty of universities have research on this, and actually those that move out of home and are living with the university or near the university do better academically. And I think that story isn't getting out enough. And I think all those other added value things is the things that we do need to talk about and bring people back around to what the benefit of these are.

SPEAKER_03:

I think we know that the reason that that isn't discussed is because a lot of universities have had to hang their hats on commuting students, so they don't want to scare commuting students off by telling them that they might not achieve as much as if they were living on campus. Um, you know, there's been a lot of news stories over the weekend. I don't think we've had particularly chance to digest them properly yet. But there is, you know, a lot about how universities have over-egged domestic students, particularly commuting students, to counter the postgraduates. So I think that that is a thing, really, that people don't want to encourage commuting students, you know.

SPEAKER_04:

But that would be I don't think the universities want it either. Uh, this this is the thing. I don't I think that PBSA obviously doesn't want it, but I think that the universities want to make sure that they can also fill their accommodation. And and the work that I the work that we've done at Resi Consultancy, we've worked with several universities where they have not been able to fill their beds. Uh and you know, whether it's this year, last two years, and we've said to them, why do you think this is happening? Firstly, obviously, price they've followed the private market, and that's really made them uh struggle. They've thought that they can get away with. I say get away with, you know, I think you know what I mean by that. They thought that they could mirror the pricing of the private sector, and therefore, you know, students would have the choice to either stay within private or go into university halls, and the pricing would be reasonably similar depending on uh you know the the amenities, etc. But what we found when we got there and started actually you know unpicking where students really live, there was a huge number of commuter students. The University of Hertfordshire is probably a really good example here. But yeah, I I think when you look at some universities, University of Hertfordshire or University of Essex, are kind of prime examples, they're seeing more and more commuter students. And that's been surprising to some PBSA operators in and around those locations where I don't think some PBSA were really expecting students in you know who were going to university in Hertfordshire and could be living in Hatfield to then actually be living in Luton with family and commuting in. And it's not just domestic students, this is also international students as well. When you have a a high sort of proportion of typically Indian students, uh then they will also have extended family in the vicinity. And I think that's where you know we also need to be mindful of the fact that there's a a lot of commuter students in in that way too. So it's not just the ones living at home, it's them living sort of you know quite some way away as well. So yeah, it's it's go this is going to be a a continuing challenge. When we think about those commuter students, and when we're talking to those operators, we know that there are more students living in BTR, there are more students in in co-living, and we know that there are more commuter students because we we see that data. So a lot of these cities are are really going to start struggling because the the demand base isn't necessarily increasing drastically, certainly postgrads is declining, and there are less students to go round, but there are more places for them to go. And so I think that is going to be more and more of a decision. Do I saddle myself with accommodation debt as well as tuition fee debt, or do I just live at home and choose my local university?

SPEAKER_03:

I think just to wrap up on that topic, um, if anyone's interested in the article that we were talking about, it's a BBC article and with the headline Why More Students Like Me Are Choosing Not to Leave Home. Um there's just one thing that I wanted to pull out of it as well, which links to what we were talking about regarding the opportunity of void beds. One student said it's much easier to book a hotel room and spend£90 a night when the student needs to come down than spend£600 on rent. So there that corroborates that£90 could be being spent on the void beds on university campuses or in PBSA halls if you had a more flexible approach to accommodation. So yeah, so we're going to go to a break now to hear from our sponsors.

SPEAKER_02:

This episode is brought to you by Utopia, the smart building platform that helps real estate owners protect the value of their assets.

SPEAKER_04:

From ESG compliance to energy efficiency and resident engagement, utopia turns real-time data into action, making buildings better for people, planet, and profit.

SPEAKER_03:

If you're in asset management or operations and care about performance, utopia is your essential partner. Find out more at utopia.co.uk. That's utopi.co.uk. Thank you very much, Utopia, for sponsoring us once again. We love you being part of House. We're really grateful for all of the contributions that you make to the podcast and also to the sector in general. So keep up the good work. On to another PR problem. So Landlord Zone is blaming the stigma for a drastic fall in shared houses. Coho analysed dupla data and saw that available house shares fell between June and September. Availability dropped in 11 of the 12 major English cities, with London being the only one increasing. So demand has increased by 3%, but some cities recorded more than half the HMO stock leaving the market. So this isn't a demand issue. We know that there's been a lot going on with regards to the renters' rights bill and with EPC laws, etc. etc. But there's also been a narrative connecting HMOs to immigrants in Westminster and the press, which may be causing councils and planners to shy away from approving new HMOs. And I must say, I went down a rabbit hole at the weekend because I knew that I had seen some of this press in my local Facebook page. And I looked it up, and yeah, that that is true. There were some negative comments about HMOs, housing asylum seekers, the challenge around parking with having homes of multiple occupation, noise, and also about greedy developers as well. I couldn't see any positive comments about supporting new HMOs in our area. And I'm in a university town, so and nobody connected the dots between HMOs and students either. So why do you guys think there is this negative view of HMOs? Do the public even understand it? What is it exactly that they're opposing and what can be done about it? Can I just say, everyone listening, that it's probably been edited out, but there was a massive pause there. Dan and Deanny literally don't know what to say.

SPEAKER_04:

Do you know what it is? I'm I am also I'm gonna I'm gonna have to go. So is most likely in Labour right now. I think I've done my full handover for all of my clients. I think I'm all prepped, but yeah, uh we we waved Wilbur off this morning on his residential, and I think just her doing that has made her just relax and probably go into Labour. Uh so yeah, she's experiencing reasonably strong contractions. I I had better go. But yeah, I will no doubt announce the the birth of Neil the baby on LinkedIn at some point fairly soon, and uh and he will probably appear on a episode of Housed uh you know reasonably soon. So yeah, uh I've got a dash. I'll see you guys later.

SPEAKER_03:

Good luck.

SPEAKER_04:

Good luck. Thank you very much. Cheers guys, see you soon.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, that was an interesting interlude, and we didn't expect that breaking news on House this morning, but hopefully by the time this is published, we will have news of Neil the baby. So you only have Deanny and I for the rest of the episode, but I'm sure on this occasion you will understand. So yeah, we will resume Howes now. Deany, what do you think about the PR issue and HMOs? As if you can follow that from Dan, really.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I yeah, I don't think I can follow that. But just where my brain was going with the stigma, I don't I I haven't seen the stigma personally, I guess, partly because my two areas of my local areas have either been London where HMOs are, every other house is a HMO of varying different of young professionals, of students, of of all sorts, so it's quite commonplace, or the country where there probably is very few HMOs because there isn't as necessary a requirement for them because I'm not near a university town and I'm not near a city. But that said, is is one of the reasons here why we've got this fall in HMOs is because a the landlords feel that it's more complicated, it's much easier to just rent things out to a house, to a family, and then it's done. And equally, are more and more people with rental properties leaving the market because it's got much, much, much harder to do rental properties at the moment. So, therefore, all the legislation that comes with it, the the tax situation, it's just harder. So we're just getting more and more and more people leaving that market. And I guess it's probably easier or more sustainable for those that have already got long-term family residents to remain than those that have HMOs who've got people moving out of the point that they move out, it's probably easier to say, actually, I'm just gonna sell up and leave the market.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I kind of feel like it probably is more the policy side of things rather than the NIMBYism. Um, but I do think there is a lack of understanding of what an HMO is. I mean, some of the comments that I was reading were so ridiculous. So I live in Bedford and we're gonna have Universal Studios here. And people were even saying, Oh my god, if you've got HMOs, the contractors will probably live in them. I mean, so what? Who cares? And how and you know, in if those contractors were going to be in hotels, then everyone would be complaining that the contractors are taking the hotel rooms. So I think a lot of NIMBYism has to be put to one side, but it doesn't feel like an appealing way to make money if you were new into kind of property development or if you, you know, inherited a property or something. It doesn't feel like converting it into an HMO would be your number one, you know, solution, really. I think there's just too much against it, really. But again, as we talked about with the previous article, there's probably a PR problem here, you know, that there should be kind of, I guess, more light shone on on the benefits of of HMOs and what they bring to you know to the sector as well. And you know, all of those people that probably went to university and probably lived in HMOs and didn't know that it was called an HMO are now criticising the HMOs. So I think potentially the student impact on HMOs is is understated generally in the press.

SPEAKER_02:

And as you say, it's people need houses for people to live in, and that's not all families. It's not just families that need to rent places, it's all sorts of people. And I think again it comes down to this idea that we should only have homes for families, but actually we need homes for all sorts of people, and yeah, we probably need to educate people on why we need different contract types because you do need HMO contracts for people who aren't a family. So, yeah, I think as you as you say, education would probably be a positive thing.

SPEAKER_03:

Definitely. We are now going to hear from one of our other sponsors.

SPEAKER_00:

Wash Station proudly sponsor this episode of Housed. We provide best-in-class laundry solutions that complement your buildings. Washstation. Smart, green, clean.

SPEAKER_03:

So, Wash Station are doing a fantastic job in providing laundry services across the UK and Ireland. And thank you so much for sponsoring the podcast. Um, and if you are looking to install or upgrade your laundry solutions in your shared living properties, then do get in contact with Washstation. Next, we have the 2025 Build to Rent Report and Co-Living Addendum by Paris Street and Verve Life as well. We are we've we've dissected it. There's a lot in it, so we're not going to go through every single statistic. But it was really, really interesting. I think the structure of it. I think reading between the lines, it was probably a BTR report, and now co-living is starting to be talked of in terms of BTR, and that's been added into the addendum. So some of the key facts that I've pulled out that I thought were interesting is that more and more it's being treated as a longer housing choice rather than a temporary option. Um so the report said that in co-living, around 50% of residents now intend to stay for more than 12 months, which is up 35% since the 2023 report as well. And renewal rates remain high, which supports a more stable and resilient income profile for operators as well. For BTR, the average renewal rates are 74% and 43% stay for over a year, which mirrors co-living. And we actually discovered, didn't we, Deanny, in our own youth forum research that 26% of students want to stay where they are living after they graduate, and 27% said they don't mind. So have we revealed one of the main appeals of BTR and co-living for students that they can stay beyond the restraints of their degree?

SPEAKER_02:

I think that's potentially one of the aspects going on here, and potentially I just think the product is more attractive to be in, as we've said before. And I think going back to our first topic around students not going to university because of the drinking culture is actually if you're gonna move out of home and you go and you're gonna go for that independence, and that's gonna be hard and it's gonna be expensive, you're gonna want to do it in a place that feels like you are being independent, you are, it is like a home, it is something different, and that feels to me that BTR does become more attractive in that sense than going into PBSA, and it's something that mirrors my own experience of I didn't stay my my guilty secret of made a living out of student accommodation is I never stayed in halls of residence when I went to university and went straight into HMO because that felt like I was being far more independent and far more grown up doing that than going into halls of residence, and it was absolutely the right choice for me. What I will say about this article though is the, and I know we this has been discussed in many conferences about the different planning classes that co-living or BTR has to go in, and there isn't really one defined for it. And this feels like a classic thing, especially as the government is now looking at planning and looking at those regulations and is trying to boost planning applications and build, is that actually shouldn't the co-living BTR sector go and lobby with the government to talk about actually there is a role to play in building more houses through co-living and BTR. So let's find a class use that actually aligns that and makes it easier to get through so that actually planners understand what co-living and BTR is. Although caveat with sometimes a sector I'm not sure really understands what BTR and co-living is by different terminology.

SPEAKER_03:

The it it asked in the survey the number one reason why people choose to live in co-living, and they the respondents said all-inclusive rents. Whereas the people living in BTR said that their number one reason to live in BTR was the rent price. I have a bit of a question mark over this because what does rent price really mean? Does that mean all inclusive rent or does that mean the cost? But going back to our episode last week about data and methodology, it doesn't look like the same questions were asked to both cohorts. So it's really hard to compare. There's definitely something going on there with residents about the rent, but I think with the response to the BTR question, I'm not clear what rent price as the number one driver for living in BTR really means.

SPEAKER_02:

No, but also I did find that interesting because does that mean that actually the difference between co-living and BTR in this report is that co-living is rent, is bills included and BTR isn't. So that's a defining difference.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, and actually I did quite a bit of research into this because spoiler alert, we've done some research in the latest youth forum, another one on the cost of living, and laundry was a big topic yet again. So we're still unpicking it, we're still reviewing the data. But then I went and had a look at co-living. When people say that the key driver is all inclusive rents, does that include laundry? And on the whole, it doesn't. So again, it feels like like with co-living, I guess because they're in the UK small studio flats, they don't all have their own washing machines generally. They're using communal laundries like they are in PBSA. So all inclusive rent actually doesn't include laundry, and I guess time will tell really whether residents in co-living have such an issue with it as students are appearing to have a problem with it in PBSA and university halls as well. But yeah, we'll we'll come to that when we're ready to launch later as well.

SPEAKER_02:

And I think there is something in that around that the BTR and co-living sector can learn from PBSA and the trajectory that PBSA has been on, because going back to our earlier conversation, there was also an article a couple of weeks ago in the BBC about that young people can't actually afford to move out of home, even though that they're saving and they're trying to, but actually the cost of rent and the cost of bills versus actually what they're earning is just not enough of them to do that. So we're storing up kind of these young people that are still stuck at home because, regardless of trying to do the right thing and saving up for deposits, actually the cost of living means that they just can't do it. It's not possible. So I think there is definitely a lesson learned. And the other thing that I was wondering is because this morning there has been news from both Labour and Conservatives around sell houses. I don't know if anyone's seen the news if you've seen the news, but there is a move from the Labour government to remove barriers to buying. So basically streamline the buying process so that actually people agree up front to buy before you go through that lengthy process and that actually owners have to talk about the condition of their property prior to putting it on the market, which I think is both good things. But also the Conservatives have come out this morning and said that they want to set up a£5,000 fund through a tax rebate for young people to get that rebate to buy their first house. So I think there is still in this country this kind of push for people to sell, but yet are we really making BTR and co-living attractive enough if we can't, if we're not making it affordable enough? But also, is there a role to be that stop gap? So if we've got people that can't afford to move out because the costs are too high, they might end up just saving up to buy if it becomes easier. But actually, is there a process by which you can support? I think where I'm going with it is actually if there is developers that have got build to sell and they've got build to rent, is there not a way to provide builds built to rent to enable part of that payment to go towards the deposit of your next house? So actually you're encouraging that movement. If that if society is not going to move away from this idea that that renting is bad, I guess.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, and we've we've talked about that a lot really about kind of, and I guess this whole episode has been about bad PR, about certain things to do with renting, but you know, renting generally has got a bad PR. Um, I do think that BTR and co-living are are helping, you know, with that. But like you said, if if if it's not because of an affordability affordability point of view, there has to be something else. One thing that came out of the report, which I thought was interesting, is a key feature of BTR residence is the work from home element with around 60% work from home a significant part of the week. So, in some respects, I think that is a bit of the pull, is the product side of it. Because, you know, I know that if you had rewound, I don't know, 20 years and I was, you know, I was working in Canary Wharf, I was commuting from my home in northwest London a couple of hours, you know, there and back. If I could have rented near my work that was commutable, that I could afford, and obviously back then working from home wasn't a thing, but if it if it was and I had the best of both worlds, that would have been really attractive to me because that environment, that kind of co working environment, that living in a city centre, those social events, that kind of buzz, I couldn't replicate at home. And I and I think that is the pull really is that the the what people can buy. Is not always what they can rent, you know, and usually what you can rent with the same amount of money is much nicer, much more convenient, much more exciting, much more modern than what you can buy. I was watching Location Location, because it's my favourite programme apart from Grand Designs, and there was a family that were renting a house and they were able to buy for the first time. The house that they were living in was worth£600,000, and their budget for rent for buying was£375,000. So they had this like massive reality check that the house they were living at had everything they wanted. It was amazing. And actually, I think they were probably paying under standard rental rates for that area. So they had this kind of rose-tinted view of what you know of what they needed and what they liked because that's what they've been living in. But the reality of what they could buy versus what they could rent was really, really different. And I guess that is the point of BTR and co-living to a lot of respects, is they're in the locations. You know, there aren't, if you take I always use Wembley as an example just because I I know it really well, but there aren't any houses in the Wembley Park area because it's it's you know, it's Quintaine have built it for apartments. So therefore, if you want to live close to the Wembley station, you're then living out kind of in the suburbs of Wembley, you know, and the houses are big there. It was, you know, typical kind of metropolitan line train, big 1930s semis. So there's no way that people can actually afford to live in Wembley in a in a nice house, but they might be able to afford to rent. So that's if I, you know, I if I was a developer or an investor of BTR and co-living and I saw the news this morning about making house buying easier, I don't think I'd be overly concerned because I still think that you know it's the deposit really that's that's the big problem, not necessarily the cost of moving.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I don't think it should concern developers. I think it's just more that the rental shared living market needs to work with the government to balance up that it's got a role to play because people can't just move out in their twenties and buy a house, and they probably do want a piece of independence, and they are trying to move out, but it's it's unaffordable. But the narrative is still very much being pushed by governments is buy, buy, buy, buy, buy. As soon as you can, you've got buy, buy, buy, buy, buy. And I don't think that is helping anyone because, like you say, that there's lots of benefits to renting, um, location, affordability. If people aren't going off to university to to live away, which I'm not advocating is is the right thing to do, but they should have that freedom and time to be able to rent and be young and be free without going down the route of the shackles of a mortgage. So it's more about that we do need to balance up, but we still have a government that is pushing for Sao Sal Sal.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, uh agreed. I would really, really like to see that that narrative changed. I've I've I'm blessed in my life to have many nieces and nephews that are in their late teens and twenties and now 30s as well. And I definitely agree that their kind of view is they have to work to be able to buy a home because that is what society is telling them, and I would just love them to break free of those shackles and you know, and live a little bit freer in exciting areas that they would never be able to afford to buy in. But anyway, we have come to the end of this episode. We started with three and we've ended with two of us, but you know, there was some breaking news there. So, like we said, hopefully we'll have some lovely, happy powers news by the time that this episode releases on Friday. Thank you to my student calls for being our headline sponsor for the season. And of course, thank you to Utopian Wash Station for coming on board again for season five. We're grateful to all of you for your support. I know we say this a lot, but please keep sharing our episodes with your teens and colleagues. We have had such great feedback from people saying they find the content useful to gain context and confidence about the sector. Equally, if you have hot topics or ideas of what you want us to cover for the rest of the season, then please get in touch at hello at housepodcast.com and we will see you again next week.